Read this: Print is dead. Long live print

Hello and welcome to the media Show podcast printers dead print is dead long live print those of you who have listened to the media show 4 years will know the alleged death of newspapers is a story long for told it's one.

I'm sorry to say I know a bit about but I report to the death of print been greatly exaggerated will be in the studio today are to practitioners who probably are some cells that every day or at least they ought to his Media show debuted younger the editor of Britain's most read newspaper metro is here Ted at what's tomorrow's splash.

I am very taken by Donald Trump I think I think the Donald Trump story is just too good at the moment.

We had so much to scandal out of the Year trump, white house that is quite hard to tell when a story is actually a mega mega mega scandal at the one overnight to do with his noise like a bigy when his sex lawyer says he says the presidency criminal that's so that's a that's a pretty good story and I we know from our digital.

Property actual paper that the audience engagement with the trump story is immense we get very long dwell time on reading about trump.

He's been very good for his lots of Media Cable the editor The Times literary supplement that is also is Steve thanks for coming in and how does August rank sales Rise for periodicals like yours off because you do a summer we all magazines.

Do that when I join the silicide is there someone don't like testing the people want that a level does adjust opacity questions we all get a week off.

So I don't know the reason behind it were people can go on a summer holidays with with an extra bumper issue, and I think sales go up, but a bit for that and then the poor people have to write it.

I get a week off again with marvellous ok more for you guys in a moment of course at we shall Ventures far beyond at Print Rebecca sorry Rebecca penty at Leeds Bloomberg courage of telecoms media and entertainment in Europe and Rebecca what else other than preparing formula Showell CV working on today.

Spring out of the owner of builds that Europe's biggest selling daily if they put augmented reality on a paper so the Shirley showing highlights of the Bundesliga if you put your phone on this little this little image on the paper all the sun you're getting high late.

So they're trying to bring digital to the newspaper and extend the life of of the paper whatever happened to just putting that online to do the internet exist if only exists because all turn the studio is Mark Watson the CEO of eleven sport at Mark we're going to talk about the upheaval in sports rights later in the show before you do that for those who don't know what is eleven sports eleven sports is a new service will also the couple of weeks ago in the UK it specialises in football and we pitching has been up sit essential for the dedicated football fan.

So all of the Spanish the football from Spain from Italy have a many other countries around the world is on eleven sport exclusively, and if I don't need internet for 599 want y11 size 14.

Ok, thanks Mark the first the Edinburgh TV festival at the Edinburgh International TV Festival start today more is the media correspondent at the times and former colleague of mine at only independent.

He's there now to give us a flavour of what happening at Matt just before you tell us what's going on today.

Can you remind exactly the point of this festival again? That's a very good question actually basically.

It's 32 biggest event in the British television calendar and executives from all the big broadcasters and some top US streaming companies flying to basically announced their plans their visions for the channels for the channels over the next couple of years and the delegates are mostly produces an independent production companies and they want to know what kind of show they should be pitching to these channels are to ensure they get commissions such a great place to keep up with her coming TV trans and find out what's going to be on screens for the next couple of years ago as a business actually genuine business gets done and so was the big Media names other than yours that are there who should we be looking out for this year will everyone from this.

This morning the conference opened with an address from Charlotte Moore head of content at the BBC I'd tomorrow's ITV's they can I give you stay Kevin lygo and who holds the control there is going to say what he wants his channel and all eyes are on Friday for final day when Ian Katz who is the relatively new director of programs at Channel 4 is going to give a bit more detail on on how he wants to reinvent this channel since moving over from BBC's Newsnight programme which is used to edit are also going to see which is quite rare some speeches from Netflix executives and Amazon have a presents as well.

So that the US dreams that im trying to top up British production companies to see what the best ideas are and see if they can done steal them from under the BBC's notices.

Ok.

I'm at the only one lecture than McTaggart has a rather unconventional name attached to it this year, who is the Speaker and what would you say it's it's it's fascinating so usually mattack McTaggart which is de Aquino events of the of the other festival is done by a senior Media executive previously James Murdoch and spoken Mark Thomas

Cinnamon he was director general of the BBC this year, it's not such a familiar name she's called Michaela Cole she is a very talented young British actress and screenwriter and singer I should be very familiar to viewers in the next few months when she stars in BBC drama black earth rising but she's been asked to talk about the impact of basically did BBC iTV diversity problem she talked about her experience of racism while working the television industry also experiences of sexual assault as well and her speech which is due to start in about half an hour is expected to be a cool.

Cool towards the industry to take more care and its employees particularly.

I'm younger people who are just starting out in the industry right ok and Jeremy Corbyn is giving her and alternative speech WhatsApp going to say yes, it is a curious 12.

He's going to speak tomorrow and we haven't got full details of what he's going to what he's going to talk about but it's expected he's going out and labours latest thinking on how they're going to democratize the BBC obviously there's been a clashes between.

PCR jealous and and corbyn's leadership team in the past allegations of 5 by a son and I'm favoritism, so he's going to give some more details on how how the corporation can be made more accountable to voters more accountable to licence fee payers and I'm more reflective of British society more generally ok for a follows is a video message.

I think earlier this year doesn't reset a new service change is coming thanks for that Matt stay with us and we'll talk about print now.

I know you know lots about as we mentioned earlier.

There is an often story in media about newspaper circulations down advertising revenue down glory days long gone so far so familiar but couldn't new circulation figures which came out last week.

Not everyone is in decline with Mia 2 editors who are seeing print growth.

Yes, you heard that right print growth metro the only newspaper and is smoking as I say it always metros the only newspaper that didn't show a drop in circulation.

It has now overtaken the sun has the most widely read newspaper in the UK and in the magazine sector the Times literary supplement has increased readers to take young first.

Go from at Metro your paper is free.

Where is it available available in well pretty much all over the country and 52 cities so we wear in Scotland with a 120000 Scotland 890000 London where in the Northeast Tyneside we do that 56000 Yorkshire Manchester Sheffield Nottingham OK how much money did you make last year? We made 11 million pound profit last year and the year before we made no, I don't know if I would say roughly of the same category ok, and what is your forecast for this year? We're doing very well.

We are revenues are actually bored of 11 million and I would have actual advertising revenue was up.

I don't know if the same same first egg, but advertising revenue yet.

It's actually up this year and we're not alone.

I think there are several newspapers who was saying actually ad Revenue

Is that gets home is sumac 3 seconds in metros? It's a free product was lovely at feelunique.com charge readers 50p.

How many people do you think would by the metre same number same number is absolutely tables 1.4 1.5 million 1.5 minutes, so that's a free paper if you charge 50p.

That's ok.

She would drop how much would it drop by Julie I have very difficult to say but I'm one thing I do say to when I was asked when I took over metro 4 years ago.

I was asked by the team in three words.

How would you change the paper and I say I said I'd buy that writes.

What my that's what my mantras always been to the editorial team as we want to produce of paper that if it was for sale at would be bought.

So why are those who say that the future of newspapers is inevitable?

Slow decline wrong because I don't believe that anything is as black and white as that and I know you won't believe me.

I will but I was actually reading a paper or newspaper book or newspaper design trying trying to learn some stuff and I came over something called reples law which was written by the media show you know it was by Wolfgang report who was at the editor of Nuremberg biggest newspaper in 1913 and he said new media never replaces the existing modes of media and Axel Springer group.

They actually said I think it was there a CEO said books of not replace storytelling newspapers have not replaced books radio has not replaced newspapers and television has not replace radio it follows that the Internet will not replace Television or newspapers stiga weather's nice history lesson.

Is it true I think the internet is going to kill lots of

Newspapers is going to kill lots of people visit charge for their content because almost all of the stuff that you can get for free on the internet.

It's very difficult to then charge people for in a newspaper said doesn't charge for it so in some ways.

He's please keep his play me instead its own game the problem for lots of papers unless you can find a niche and then she can find something the people especially Windsor pay for cos I can't get it for free elsewhere.

It seems to be inevitable the great hungry more of the internet.

What will trump up sandpaper you've had a steep rise in the past six Months by 17% and that paid for O2 is that all papers and crude free giveaways we we have luck 10% give away when I look at the numbers every week, but I don't include them.

So if you take that actually there's near ABC number 2 with 6 months ahead of that so whereabout up twenty 25% in paid sales ok honey, and I'm sure you would say that's down to the editorial genus.

That's taking the hell, but the site for me a tutorial.

How much is News UK your own invested in marketing what's driving that grow hasn't really shifted since I've been there.

I honestly believe that we are experiencing accounting.

Witcher in this country and in need around the world Taylor sells almost half its sales around the world that if everything is facile and flipping free if if Facebook is this of can governing control of how we consume information lots of stuff is flipped.

It is very very quickly there must be a counter culture that response that people who value breadth and depth and expertise people who want a piece of 4000 words long 5000 words written by someone with a depth of expertise and I feel that things like the till it's not only retailers.

That's going to look at Serious magazines.

If you look at book sales, they are on the rise because as Whitby consumer to speed we can seem very very quick so free people at the metro which summarises things brilliantly is really useful and then we want to consume at a slower more reason speed as well and that's where I think so I've stumbled into the trailer for the time we actually it's a pretty good.

For long-form journalism Rebecca penty this the Stig swords that his two different speeds.

You've got a free paper which is a rather unique.

13 metre and you've got the very specialist to literally high minded magazine.

What about people in the middle? What about general interest paid for newspapers a danger that actually you can't judge me lessons for those products from what 10 integrating a very good question and attention to you to general interest and I'm thinking more along to the business lines and won't be doing we've got them.

The specialist magazines are still doing well.

You know I'm businessweek markets magazine and then we've just recently launched a paid website and people are paying for it and in the subscriptions.

Are you now surprisingly increasing by the day so I think people want to pay for exclusive news, so if you've got if you got general interest exclusive political news people pay for exclusive.

I think that's me.

That's the way things are going there because some exclusive it's good enough to be to be to charge for it's good enough to be nicked and the economy of the digital economy.

Zamolo is having worked to the Independent is just a whole ecology of people taking from.

Everybody else all the time in a website is constantly doing that so that the issue of charging pure Leaf exclusive you take out something indefinable like quality of writing as if it's good that good.

It'll be Nixon pedal for free so I think that there's a danger when people say 03 won't cause.

Have you paid for it in a problem? It's actually very difficult to have a product that is going to be picked up and you see this from I've seen in one of the name some of the newspapers you see great piles of them at the weekend edition which I think is close to 4 quid so we'll let nobody was picking it up because it's not their markets not with their there.

They're not easily be reached for comment on that but obviously very successful, but with with metro we have to make sure those papers picked up, so and that that that is a skill and we have got our returns to now down to about 1.25% which are.

Think is pretty pretty remarkable I was going to say how do you actually measure the information that you give to advertisers because your model is based on that you say print revenues above all they've had their help.

You study for you.

How can you be sure that the and how can I advertise is dealing with you be sure that the information you're giving them is accurate where we get ABC it all over as the ABC accounting.

You know they account for the figures.

That's a good for steaks for the TLS but we've got an incredible distribution system, so we're in 3200 locations where on 21000 buses and if there were a part of that got missing people know about.

Oh yeah definitely I'm at more time is a lot of them off of the x f in Edinburgh there's a lot of big talking the studio hear about the future of print but isn't the truth Matt that if you're looking to raise money for a new media venture and I'll ask Mum what about the second the fact is you probably wouldn't put it into a print product you're pretty Seiko digital make money there to hear talk about and Gran subscription to The TLS because that is similar store.

The Times Are subscriptions going up month on month and they recently I just passed 500000 and interestingly for the first time more time subscribers take out digital only subscription than takeout print subscription are going to remind me to listen to actually mostly so circulation are falling.

I mean guardian server locations for in The Telegraph is down ft printers down.

I know that people doing through various models raising money different ways, but I mean a print product is a dangerous business you going to go through retailers you got lots of course intensive distribution production.

I don't think most newspaper editors or TV guide chief operating officer news good care.

How people get their contact Malaysia online or in a paper all they care is that the production of quality news is commercially viable and I think it's there is haunting evidence both rooms a the times in the ft and description model and mail online and son online in mass-market online Productions guardian in in asking for contributions and print readers there at there is a patchwork of different revenue models for the new.

Groups now.

I'm just seeing which work and which will I like to be my successful, but there it that I don't think there's if there's a single magic Bullet for funding use Gathering future because I just bring him up.

What's up your Media CEO when you spoke to you read on a daily basis if there is a bit busy.

I'm feeling actually doing to share with certain additives database I commute so it's quite useful to spend that after getting if you were raising money for a new venture if you rather than going to sports rights which will discuss in a minute you actually invest in a product.

I think you'll be pretty careful about withprint brought you put it into I'm in the story the Metro is it is it is a great story setting when you look at the when you speak to finance people and look at Wi-Fi nights Kapil is going a lot more is going into new Media internet and particularly services that are making the day going direct to consumer and around the traditional platforms that is going into traditional TV channels whether right or not time will tell that was having them.

Very few papers are just print products sold at the point of them even the metre hazza hazza hazza as a pretty good website which I'm sure is growing in the way that websites do the TLS hazard as an appetizer as a website at the New York Times big digital presence it still has a print version so does the Times it seems to me that you're looking to get people to subscribe to a service and save them.

We will give you a beautiful paper magazine.

We will give you an app will give you access to a website and you're paying as for the experience and that seems to be to be the critical plan this 20% growth that you're seeing is it people coming from other publications because the UK to high-minded market magazine market isn't particular served as The Spectator does the New Statesman is the London Review of Books to are these new entrants are they international interest wear these newbies? Can I think we're actually in both the UK and Abroad we undercapitalised.

I think that for too long with not all gone after this audience in America for example.

I think with the talus could grow much much bigger than its growing and much more quickly is the New York Review of Books

There which has 130000 circulation I think even in the room with magazines because this counter cultural changes happening.

I think a whole fresh audiences opening up people who went to university going to the workplace and want a bit of depth and breadth and if they want to read on the train you know if Ted's paper didn't exist still probably know someone might trouble themselves to invent it.

If books didn't exist someone might take the trouble to inventor and if I think of magazines like this.

Don't exist the same as very true.

I often say that weird so easy paper is so easy to read and it you know if it have been invented in Silicon Valley you will be going this is this is fantastic.

You can you don't need to download it you can sit on it and the screen won't break it.

Is me.

You don't need a battery and you can skip around like an with TLS you know I've read that Review but I just want to get it back to what I wrote before and it's so much easier in on paper, but are you finding are you finding? They did that actually no?

When we last talked about business across these favours actually for you the struggle is digital in that the digital growth is not certain is not guaranteed and print is relatively solid but I wonder if that is the case in if that is because you've got quite unique proposition.

I think really it it goes back to my reples law that it's a convergent history letting it is a new Road it is a convergent and and that is developing all the time you go out you go back to with Toby talking about a Blockbusters video the other day and you were saying I remember remember is doing stories on this is the end of cinema Blockbuster video is going to finish cinema.

Where are blocked her civilians are struggling United to go out the industry given given some medication forget about the painful process for wood.

Advertising might be alright if you are a high circulation free product, but newspapers are really struggling and I just wondered whether not as you located exterior 5 years most publications in this field argon.

Have a strategy.

I know it's the case many UK papers of consolidate print and try some how to grow digital I think if you like come back to the examples builds Ospreys paper.

I mean Axel Springer has the digital future for opening a big huge new headquarters are in Berlin and it's all data all the time, but they're still investing in build because they've got that hold on a reader you know it's super influential.

It's it's a you know it's edgy.

They've got that karate and already I think they are investing in new places.

It's all digital.

I mean I do you want to come back to the consumer experience that when you think about riding the tube in London are the trains until you have wireless internet its ubiquitous and consistent and reliable you're gonna want to take your economist with you on the train.

Are you going to want to take your metre with you on the train and then that's my ex.

Influence

Print price 11 Mentalist a print if you would just going back on that so I've had that there is a lot of Wi-Fi no, it's not it is patch East London but it's but I think about 250 stations now, but most of our readers are actually coming into London so there Overground so Wi-Fi is an effect and it still taking newspaper while still taking a newspapers like I say very much and come back to the moment because I limbering up for a new season, but if I want to watch the likes of Lionel Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo in Action the left a sign up to Marks online channel 11 sports the new broadcaster has outbid Sky and BT Sports for exclusive rights to show Topley Italian and Spanish football in the UK and Ireland eleven sports which is already active in 7 countries launched in the UK last week is Mark mentioned with coverage of professional Golfers Association championship in the US penitentiary Newmarket influx with Facebook and Amazon Prime also buying up sports rights in a battle for viewers eyeballs, won the Champions League for BT and you know head eleven sports, how much?

Eleven sports offering and who is going to watch what we think we do the same to the dedicated football fan, so people that love football but that's the audience that we're alright that they were going after ok gonna get the big the big match of Barcelona vs.

Real Madrid at the mill and I'll be there be popular, but I've people really interested in at Valley Valley advert is Westcott I can't even pronounce the Spanish TV live with some some so much is a bigger than others we did last week's Emmerdale 18 live matches.

They're all grey quality included Juventus Barcelona Real Madrid they bring a bit bigger audiences, but all weekend weird water will live football if that we like all the rest put together and we think there's a market for that for sure but if the logic of what you offering is what some people in the industry called skinny bundles, are you don't get the whole gamut of offerings but you get specific eleven Sports r4u football.

Why not specialised even more just say would do the big Barcelona vs.

Real match.

Why why not go even more particular, so if you want to be his boxing match with you pay for that one.

That's what I'm in the Barcelona Real Madrid any played Charlotte yt?

Relate these issues event when they do but I should the demos widen that so people there is a pretty big audience you to be on Sky now.

It's so where was 420 years Spanish football.

We taking it away and it's now on eleven sports week in Week Out over the last 20 years a pretty big audience of people to be watching Spanish football.

I'm thinking about the fatigue Media show listen.

Oh, it's not till 50, but listen to this year.

I was thinking about what they want to watch sport ways every month and they've got a subscription with this company and a subscription with that company and now they hear you saying if they want a big Spanish guy the gorilla that Scribe to your company in another account and another password is there such thing as subscription fatigue yeah, maybe I think that it may be an issue.

There's there's actually I think there is an audience out there that will come directly to us and we priced it pretty keenly.

I mention the price of the Beginning so we make it as easy as possible for people to come in but there are in the market aggregators whose job it is to aggregate content to The Night Sky and Virgin and BT and we've only just launched in the UK but in other countries.

We've always been a very happy, too.

Work with those companies who aggregate are content with others and make it available as part of one package to consumers with what I have to do it here in the UK so have everything ready for this is enough to invest in if they want to watch Tottenham top-level sporting a few years time are there going to be more entrance Evermore Mark Watson coming up and saying if you want this bit of service.

He gonna have to pay x amount of money each month.

I think keep seeing if you move guides start you got perform good design is not starting a new cut the big players you get Facebook and Amazon dabbling in various markets including the UK but generally buying the rights and secondary markets like he's on Facebook do video for our legal rights in the Indian subcontinent you seen the same thing in in in Latin America but then you've also got the big existing media companies wanting on streaming services the Disneyland ESPN plus service for a low price.

So you know these guys are all darling.

We have yet to see a big play by a Facebook on Amazon or Twitter or

You don't even the upstarts 40 rides in in a domestic markets at the Premier League I was going to say Matt from the X if in 2020 when the right to Wimbledon come up Mark Zuckerberg's as you know what I quite like tennis.

I want to have you know what to take tennis the masses of the 2 billion people that have a Facebook account if Facebook bid for Wimbledon can the BBC compete know if Facebook decide they want it there will be able to sort it out punch any any British broadcaster or if it is if they're allowed to bid but I think it's fascinating is is Netflix with the market-leading highest Reading service in the west.

They vary markedly have decided not to into to invest and buy life sports rights on spoken to some people of Netflix now very clear about the reason why I'm drama comedy children's TV and people will watch shows a day they release and I carry on watching double still be watching Five Years Time no study.

Study shows have a very long shelf life with live sport and you'll get 20 million people watching England World Cup game on the day happens.

No one wants to spend 90 minutes watching.

Came the next day the next week let alone two years time to sportswriter are expensive and they don't offer the to the long tail of viewing and the Netflix needs to make its its own finances work today currently and had known to the cynical plans to enter this market.

I think I think as a major player that so that should have it interesting insight.

That's name point of Rebecca Woods that mean for will not small companies can compete in this new world, so it will come please like me Marks not running a small company but compared to Facebook and Netflix Nottingham Panthers a small company.

How can they compete I think it's all about throwing a subscription model model behaviour experimental in your you're doing at work saying we are partnering with various other media companies you can show your content if you've got subscription if you're experimenting with string things live on Facebook I think it's raining it's really unclear who's going to win at this Amazon for example.

You know I would take your point that it's hard to compete against something like Amazon which is known to make big investments.

Nice making new Industries of making Ventures to support other businesses of enzyme gets into support and to support its supporting its prime business for grocery delivery issue about the 8pj golf you had a couple of technical problems if he does interrupted during phytomone to the game you got it sorted now.

Yes, so we have one problem for a small number of customers unfortunate was the last part which was extremely annoying we done 40 hours of uninterrupted coverage without a glitch and then the last part for a smaller recasens went down.

It was a human error and you what I've been in TV for a long time now it happens then we can before that if you shouted anyone there was a little bit of an happiness, but it was coming 12:30 on Sunday night with a long weekend so it serves lost parts of his over say speaks ASCO doesn't to saving in public.

Would you might regret? Thank you very much and Peter all you for your time really appreciate it how I've got a favour to ask if you enjoyed the podcast please.

Would you give us a rating and possibly even a review wherever it is that you download the PA

Cos if it's on iTunes or where it might be because that helps other people finest podcast with your course is the idea.

Thank you so much.