All posts by Stan
Below are all of Stan's postings, with the most recent are at the bottom of the page.
MikeB: Excuse me, but 90000 licence fees amount to over £13million. The annual cost of keeping the 198kHz on the air is around £9million (an estimated figure, and one that is probably vastly exaggerated because it comes from a report advocating the shutdown of the service).
Even more to the point - the Droitwich transmitter is also used by a large number (Hundreds of thousands, if not millions) of dual rate electricity meters to control the rate changes, and by a number of laboratories as an extremely accurate frequency reference. All these would have to be replaced if the LW transmitter were to be shut down.
michael: If or when the massive failure in communications comes, they will rue the day they let all bomb-proof old fashioned systems wither on the vine. If they shut down Analogue AM completely, it will be obviously consigned to history and forgotten pretty quick. The idea that in a national emergency we could then simply "go back" to Analogue broadcasting if there are no regular broadcasts on it anyway is, therefore, pretty simplistic. It must be sustained, if only as a "standby", but a standby that is never allowed to go out completely! As long as there are Analogue (especially MW/FM) broadcasts of any kind, there will be an audience and it will remain pretty mainstream because it is the bog-standard.
Unfortunately, it may now be too late to try and re-invent LW. As I said in an earlier post, local MW/FM infrastructure will probably have to be relied upon in any emergency.
When I try to look to the long-term future, I see two main mediums of broadcasting will thriving in the long-term: Wifi on one end, and Analogue (MW/FM) on the other. Wifi because this is, after all, the age of the internet, and Analogue because of it's simplicity, reliability and low running costs.
Certainly this radio of mine
http://www.audioidiots.co…935, WHICH STILL BEATS MOST DAB's IN SOUND QUALITY will not be made completely redundant yet, perhaps not EVER.
Okay, there may (or may not) come a time when Analogue is discontinued because it will become so irrelevant that it will make the 198kHz of today look like mainstream in comparison. I just don't expect it to happen in my lifetime (I'm 26). Realistically, I think as long as there are Analogue broadcasts, there will be listeners, and because of it's low running costs, radio stations will be able to afford to simulcast on FM or MW to reach ALL their listeners.
Finally, their idea of "switch-over" - it is intended to begin migration by main national stations from Analogue to digital when 50% are listening to digital. So the other 50% will still be listening via Analogue, right?
I haven't heard anyone suggesting that internet radio and radio via TV be shut down, even though they only account for 5% of listening each.
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MikeB: Also, I think you may have somewhat misunderstood the Ofcom's table of digital listenership. What it really tells you is that all age groups aside from the over-65's, on average, spend more than 50% of their time listening via some kind of digital, not that half of them only ever listen to digital.
Here in Norwich, for example, we have two local independent stations (both FM only), commercial RadioNorwich99.9FM, whose prime target are 25-55yr olds, and community FutureRadio107.8FM, which is listened to largely by the youth. Both are reporting rising audiences year on year and I know people who have DAB radios that they have tuned to FM to recieve one of these stations. And, unless Norwich is somehow different to the rest of the world, I can only guess that the same is happening up and down the country.
Millions of listeners tune into their favourite stations and shows on MW, which, by the way, currently accounts for more listening hours than DAB. Being as FM is vastly superior, there is no reason to believe that they won't do the same for their favourite local FM station, post any daft future digital switch-over.
Long Live Long Wave (and all Analogue!).
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Briantist: I think if they stopped using the LW singal and started getting their custmors' bills wrong because of it, they should consider going back to using it again, don't you think?
MikeB: Okay, you have explained things quite well. I am just saying that, realistically, there will always be Analogue radio, in one form or another, even when/if the big nationals eventually stop Analogue broadcasts. For example, MW, if we are led to believe, has been on death row for half a century. Here we are, in 2014, if it was a dead duck then commercials wouldn't bother with it. Why has Analogue proved so resilient to market trends for more and more fancy digital equipment? Because it's simple, reliable and low-cost and low maintenance, and the same can hardly be said for any digital platform.
michael: I would say that Short Wave is pretty well obsolete by now, but that's not to say there are no broadcasts. If you are like me and like to tamper with it when you are feeling abit bored in the evenings, it can make a very entertaining listening with all those foreign stations from all over the world, I can sometimes tune in to the BBC World Service even though broadcasts to the UK were discontinued several years ago (they are still broadcasting to other parts of the world, though). Anyone else ever listen to comedy shows on Radio Armadillo on 75m band? There are also no end of pirate operators on Short Wave, and American Catholic extremists also use it (not that I am a regular listener, though). So, in that sence, you could say that Short Wave is still alive and kicking. But no, would not be suitable as a mass emergency service. LW, too, has more or less gone the way of the dodo. MW is slowly going the same way. SOME DAB radio include MW capability, not many. But virtually all include FM, which is why I said in an earlier post that local FM transmitters would really be most suitable to broadcast essential information in an emergency. Everyone has FM and it is robust enough.
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Briantist: "The bit I don't get is: if you can only get Radio 4 on long-wave, why are you paying the Television Licence Fee?
If you can get any form of TV in the UK, BBC Radio 4 is carried on it. So you don't need long-wave... "
Who would seriously want to listen to radio via TV and burn many times as much energy, for the same result, as a stand-alone radio, whether Analogue or even DAB? Someone on here was surpirised that radio listening via TV "only" accounted for 5% of all listening. I am surprised it is as high as that. I mean, for one thing, if I put the TV on, I usually do so because I want to watch something, and obviously also the enegry cost factor. Which bright spark thought of broadcasting radio via TV anyway?
michael: I see what you mean and I agree with you. The only thing I will say is that given the incredibly low number of people who don't even have a SW capable radio, or wouldn't know how to use it even if they did (yes, SW listening does require considerable dexteriety), I don't think it would be as suitable as FM or MW for communicating emergency information from Government to the populace.
MikeB: Agreed. I think it's also about convenience. I also happen to think that, to a degree, this appetite for IPads and other new-fangled technologies is due to them being very "trendy" at the moment (I don't have one, and certainly won't be getting one any time soon).
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MikeB: That Sony of mine was, at the time, very much at the top end of electronics in quality and, unbelievably, STILL beats that fuzzy sound that many DAB's bought for under £50 churn out (when it's switched to FM).
Being 26, I didn't buy it from new but found it in a skip. Another example of perfectly good technology being discarded simply for not being "modern" or "trendy" enough. I suspect whoever chucked it has now gone through several of those devices you call tablets/ipads, whatever, don't really know much about them. But, alot IS based on trends. I suspect most people would know no better than discarding old radios like my Sony because they fear it wouldn't look "up to date" enough to have on the sideboard in the living room. Talk about daft...
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Thistimemaybe: I really, really wouldn't worry too much at this point: it would be suicidal for ofcom to now say that all these DAB radios that people like yourself have bought in good faith would now be pretty much obsolete; They will allmost certainly continue to broadcast on DAB as the basic digital channel to avoid making all those DAB's obsolete. Also, you neglected to mention the precise make/age of your radios. Some (especially PURE's) may well be DAB+ adaptible, it could just be a matter of taking them to a radio workshop.
And if the worst comes to the worst you will just have to have the same plan as I have for my 35 year old Sony 4 band reciever in the event of any switch-over - it will be retained for listening to micro-local stations which will continue to expand on FM (I assume that you radios, like all DAB's, can also recieve FM).
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Britantist: Precicely. My radio is plugged into the mains and is perfectly audible even when tuned to LW (for some reason, FM reception in my area for radio 4 is quite patchy). So, while I wouldn't worry too much about the difference between the cost of energy for having the TV and my radio, putting the radio on surely seems like, well, the natural thing to do if you want to listen to it. Same as putting the TV on seems the natural thing to do - if you want to watch something.
MikeB: What you have told me about TV radio in Wales sounds interesting, I would have thought they would have just used MW?
I haven't heard anybody suggesting that TV radio should be switched off and yet ofcom are proposing to switch off Analogue (for national stations, anyway) when HALF of listeners are still using it. That surely borders on insanity.
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MikeB: DAB+ is still in infancy as far as we in UK are concerned. I haven't heard any other mention of it's arrival to Britain than here.
Yes. What I'm trying to say is that it just doesn't seem right to talk about pulling the plug on Analogue for national stations when many millions (half of all listeners) will still be using it, yet I haven't heard anybody suggesting radio via TV should be cut even though it its used by 5% of all listeners!
Another thought is that the 25% or so who have bought into DAB (over 20 years!) are the easier part to convince, or they are lucky they can receive a visibly (or audibly, rather) superior digital signal. I bought a DAB last year for trial and the sound was so tinny that it went back the next day (it cost £29 at the B&M discount store, but was originally worth £79.99) . Give me a strong FM signal any day of the week. Just lately, sales of DAB radios have been flat anyway, and I suspect that come the switch-over most people like me who are more than happy with their old faithful Analogue recievers will either swap for local stations or some might even stop listening to radio altogether. As you said in an earlier post vintage is in. That appetite for vintage valve wirelesses (most of which can't even receive FM!) is not going to go away, and those listeners may be less than amused if they their treasured sets are made redundant for no real benefit to ANYBODY except the big boys who will save on not having to pay dual transmission costs. Well, of course, the freeing-up of FM will give small local/community stations more room to expand (which is, in fact, part of the Government's plan), but for most people, it will be a real headache. In fact, I think those stations that remain on FM past the switch-over could well have a considerable increase in audience on the back of this. So it might not be all bad after all. Even MW could thrive because there are an awful lot of old wirelesses still being lovingly used every day, which might be hard for tech geeks to believe but there you have it, that's definite.
I agree about LW but I suspect being as they are now spending a fortune on refurbishing the Droitwich mast the frequency could be used for other purposes (even if, like me, you don't REALLY believe that a submarine captain would think Britain has been nuked if they couldn't tune into the Archers). And yes, if LW listening is still (quite rightly, in my *personal* opinion) significant enough for me to consider, I certainly don't expect ALL MW/FM to be completely silent in my lifetime.
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And yes, if LW listening is still (quite rightly, in my *personal* opinion) significant enough for me to consider, I certainly don't expect ALL MW/FM to be completely silent in my lifetime.
I meant "for the BBC to consider".
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Wednesday 23 April 2014 7:51PM
Anyway, back to the original topic of this thread: I tend to think that any more tinkering about with digital broadcasting (and broadcasting in general) will only serve to further confuse and disorientate joe public.
Re. the growth in digital listening - most of that is MAINLY youngsters consuming radio vial smart phones and the internet, NOT DAB itself.